300mm ST170 brake upgrade

Last night I had a Toyota Celica giving me a wee chase, I completely out braked him! It was a fifty something plate, couldn't really tell as I was pulling away from it. I recon it was the 140bhp model.
 
Is there a rear brake upgrade, just looking to up grade the front brakes. I think it will look better behind the 18" wheels I would like to get one day.
 
If you upgraded the rear brakes (as in bigger) would it not unbalance the braking? Especially in corners?

I dont think so as most of the braking is done at the front end away, if so could always put in an inline brake bias. Its just when I put 18" wheels on I dont want the brakes to look too small.
 
Yeh most of the breaking is done at the front, thats why I never bothered upgrading the rears.

Could be worse, you could have 18"s and put them on drum brakes.
 
Setup looks superb Chris

Cheers for doing all the research so I can steal all your good ideas (y)

I have a mk3 mondy in bits at the moment so I am going to put the 300mm brakes on the front and rear and use the spacers as you sugested I thought about using a strip of metal rather than washers as Topcat was not to sure about washers.

I am going to press out the old bearings and hubs from the front of the mk3 and press the 5 stud hubs into the cougar knuckles with new bearings so I can get my st220 wheels onto the front just need to figure out how to do the rear. :idea:

While you were looking into the brake upgrade did anyone say if they had to put spacers onto the rears?

Also and sorry for all the questions how difficult was it to replace the brake lines and drain the brake fluid then replace it with the dot 5 stuff?
 
Setup looks superb Chris

Cheers for doing all the research so I can steal all your good ideas (y)

I have a mk3 mondy in bits at the moment so I am going to put the 300mm brakes on the front and rear and use the spacers as you sugested I thought about using a strip of metal rather than washers as Topcat was not to sure about washers.

I am going to press out the old bearings and hubs from the front of the mk3 and press the 5 stud hubs into the cougar knuckles with new bearings so I can get my st220 wheels onto the front just need to figure out how to do the rear. :idea:

While you were looking into the brake upgrade did anyone say if they had to put spacers onto the rears?

Also and sorry for all the questions how difficult was it to replace the brake lines and drain the brake fluid then replace it with the dot 5 stuff?

The reason I used washers is because thats what everone else was using and were easier to come by than making a plate or strip of metal. Anyway I dont think a plate would of worked with my setup anyway, because the gap at the top hole is different than the bottom. IIRC one is about 2mm and the other is sighly under 3mm. So the plate would have to be different thickness at either end, plus you'll probably have to use washers in a mock up to making the plate anyway. My calliper were covered in red enamal paint with probably added mm or 2.

Its all done by eye so the disc doesn't touch the calliper when you turn it, not that exact, so get a pile of washers of different thickness to tailer it to your needs.

If your changing the hub that adds a whole lot more to the equation, as the new hub might be a few mm's thiner that the cougar so the spacers won't be needed?? Or could be the other way round, thicker and more spacers needed?

One thing to note is because you are moving the calliper further away from the hub the bolt no doesn't use the full length of the thread on the calliper. Make sure you use locktight on the bolts. I lost one of mine and the calliper was only hanging on with one bolt making braking useless and the calliper was hitting the inside of the alloy, luckily I was less than a mile from home when it happened and got the car home safely. I replaced a bolt from each side with slightly longer bolts from my junkbox, and applyed some locktight, been fine ever since. Although I have checked to make sure the bolts are still tight ever time the wheel is off, they are, just a bit para now. I would of replaced all 4 bolts but I only had 2 in the junkbox and have no idea where they came from. Everytime you work on cars you seem to have more bolts than you started with? One day if I work on enough cars I'll have enough parts to build a new a new car!

As for the rear brakes, I just kept mine standard with uprated discs and pads. Never looked into changing them, as that would cost more money and most of the braking is done by the front anyway. I know ste_eck and p.whitelock where looking into changing them, pm them if they dont reply to this. ste_eck may have already fitted them?

As for the brake lines, I took all the lines out of the callipers and put them in to empty 'gingy bottles' (up here in scotland they sell 750ml glass bottles of juice, a gingy bottle is a 750ml glass bottle of Irn-Bru, also know as a 'glass cheque' in glasgow as you get 25p back when you return the bottle.) I then pumped the pedel untill no more fluid would come out, then got a friend to put is mouth over the reservoir and blow, (I wasn't gonna do that, nasty stuff brake fluid, but what are friends for?) and contiuned to pump the pedel.

The fluid from the reservoir was nice a clear but the fluid in the brake lines was horrible and black. So added DOT 5.1 to the reservoir and pump that through the system removing all the black crap until the brake lines would run clear. This was to flush out the crap and the DOT 4 brake fluid. Then let it drain again.

Once the new brake were all fitted (disc, callipers, pads, braded line) I added new DOT 5.1 fluid and blead the brakes. Bleading brakes took ages as there was a lot of air in the system, as you could imagine. Gave the car a quick couple of runs round the road and blead the brakes between runs to make sure all the air was out the system.

I needed a few bottles of DOT 5.1 in total, one to flush and one to use. Theres probably something else you can use to flush the brakes line but the brake fluid only cost ?ú5 from a local motor factors, unless you go to halfords and then its about ?ú15 for a litre!!!

From the chart in halford, all mk2 v6 mondeos run with dot 5.1 brake fluid, all mk3 mondeos have dot 5.1 and so does the focus st170, but the cougar uses DOT 4. (The cougar, the car ford forgot about)

The only difference between DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 is the boiling point, 5.1 is higher so with using DOT 5.1 your less likly of brake fade. Dont use DOT 5 its different to DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 and cant be mixed with either. DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 can be mixed, but the more DOT 4 used the fluid will just be like dot 4 making the dot 5.1 useless. Thats why you should flush it out.

I dont think there is much difference in price, a few pence maybe, and as you'll probably want to flush your system anyway as it will most likely be like mine, the original fluid and full of muck. I think Ford recommeds the brake fluid gets changed at 60,000 or 6 years with the full service. When I did the brakes my car was 7 years old, with under 50,000 mile, it hadden't had a full service done. So done it myself.
 
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Superb cheers for the detailed reply mate.

If the offset on the rear adaptors is good I will be getting a set of adaptor plates and doing the mods in the next couple of weeks hopefully.

Just have to get all the bits together now and ask Helen very nicely if she will let Tony come out to play :ihih::D

Just found these

Front and rear stainless hoses
http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=44974
http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=45322

Front and rear zinc plated hoses
http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=45148
http://www.balancemotorsport.co.uk/products.asp?recnumber=45496

What is the difference apart from the price?

Also sorry to hijack your thread mate
 
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The Zinc plated ones will rust and tarnish quickly :sad:

The stainless ones will corrode a lot more slowly depending on the quality of the stainless steel.

I have stainless black diamond hoses but they have normal steel fittings meaning there is no befefit in the hoses being stainless.
The ones you are looking at claim to have stainless fittings so you should be ok :)
 
I've got the black diamond hoses aswell, got them of off 'active' that runs the cougarstore, sent him a PM for a price, Cant remember what I paid pretty sure it was cheaper than that.
 
The Zinc plated ones will rust and tarnish quickly :sad:

The stainless ones will corrode a lot more slowly depending on the quality of the stainless steel.

I have stainless black diamond hoses but they have normal steel fittings meaning there is no befefit in the hoses being stainless.
The ones you are looking at claim to have stainless fittings so you should be ok :)

If they are the same as these chris I will prob go for the complete stainless ones.

Just measured and with the set up I am looking at I will be getting 300mm fronts and 280mm rears :D
 
I'm looking at doing this upgrade. My wife borrowed my Cougar while I was cleaning child vomit out of her car.
When I got the keys back she informed me my brakes were shocking!!! She drives a PT Cruiser. I feel so ashamed.

1st question. Anyone got the parts for this upgrade kicking about? Might as well keep the money within the club ;)

2nd question. Do I need to change the brake lines or will the existing ones plumb straight in? (braided lines at a later date perhaps)

Thank you