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Pyragaitis_TT

New user
Jul 8, 2017
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Lithuania
Hello, i am not a cougar owner, but i like cougar's. (I speak in english not very good, but i think you understand me) :D. I have a Ford Mondeo mk2 with v6 engine, and came here for information. I have a lot of questions:
1. Why i cant read a forum? when i go to duratec modification theme, and there is nothing... because i am new and dont have permissions to read, or this theme is realy empty?
 
Hello and welcome to the forum. (y)

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Clicking on 'Membership' at the top of the page will allow you to choose which option you would prefer.
 
then please tell me some information... i am searching some information about changing engine heads from st220 in to a 2.5 v6 engine, this modification gives some diferent or not. if there is anything about this, then i go to pay money and read. :)
 
then please tell me some information... i am searching some information about changing engine heads from st220 in to a 2.5 v6 engine, this modification gives some diferent or not. if there is anything about this, then i go to pay money and read. :)
He's right though I know a little. And Pardon my english. Im american and it's wayyyy different then pretty much everyone.

So here goes. And those ST numbers mess me up but here ST220 is a 3.0L and I believe the 2.5 is a ST200?? Anyway to your question, 3.0L heads on a 2.5L I think will actually cause you to loose compression. What you're referring to doing we call a Hybrid V6. Don't worry about those threads I didn't do it. There is some interesting stuff but nothing that would help you with this.
I forgot the actual numbers, and Im to lazy to google at the moment but, the main difference between the 2.5 and the ST220 Is the bore size. That meaning the hole the piston fits in. The rods and crank I believe are the same. I know for a fact the rods are. I had ST220 rods from a noble in Luci's 2.5L engine.
So for sake of arguement we'll say the bore for the 2.5 is 86mm wide. The circular indention in the head should also be 86mm wide. Now the ST220 being a larger bore, lets say 94mm, the circle in the head is also sized to match.
If you take the ST220 heads and put them on a 2.5L they will bolt on just fine, but you now have a 94mm circle on an 86mm hole. This basically makes the cylinder hold the same amount of air for a larger container. Think of it as taking a cup of water and dumping it into a larger cup.

To add to how engines work, Ford made various changes throughout the years to our engines. They moved oil ports and water passages. Added and deleted them as well. We even have a version here of the engine that doesnt have the water pump running off the camshaft i believe. You have to double and triple check all the openings in the heads to make sure they all match up correctly.

The main question here would be, why do you want to do it?

If you're trying to gain horsepower, that alone wont do it unless the difference in intakes might be able to pull it off. I don't think so because your compression ratio is going down.

If you're purposely trying to lower it so you can for instance add forced induction then sure maybe.

Another thing you have to look at. The 2.5 we have has the IMRC in it. The little butterflies in the lower intake. Unless you get old split port 3.0L heads you're going to loose that and the mounting points for the control box. The ST220 didn't have that. If your engine computer is set up for that system then its going to throw a fault code unless you can get with these fine chaps over there that have figured it out.

You're also either going to need an ST220 intake manifold setup, or fabricate an adaptor to make the 2.5 intake fit the ST220 heads. The ports are different. The ST220 heads are oval port, the 2.5 is split port. Totally different set up all around.

If you're doing this to try and gain power and its a because I want to and not because I have to situation staying naturally aspirated, you need to reverse what you're doing. You need 2.5L heads on an ST220 engine. It gives you the larger bore of the ST220 engine but using the 2.5L heads leaves it totally stock looking for our cars as well as raises the compression ratio.

Im going to apologize now if you made it this far, for me taking up the last 30 minutes of your life with this super long post. I hope it helped though and good luck.
 
He's right though I know a little. And Pardon my english. Im american and it's wayyyy different then pretty much everyone.

So here goes. And those ST numbers mess me up but here ST220 is a 3.0L and I believe the 2.5 is a ST200?? Anyway to your question, 3.0L heads on a 2.5L I think will actually cause you to loose compression. What you're referring to doing we call a Hybrid V6. Don't worry about those threads I didn't do it. There is some interesting stuff but nothing that would help you with this.
I forgot the actual numbers, and Im to lazy to google at the moment but, the main difference between the 2.5 and the ST220 Is the bore size. That meaning the hole the piston fits in. The rods and crank I believe are the same. I know for a fact the rods are. I had ST220 rods from a noble in Luci's 2.5L engine.
So for sake of arguement we'll say the bore for the 2.5 is 86mm wide. The circular indention in the head should also be 86mm wide. Now the ST220 being a larger bore, lets say 94mm, the circle in the head is also sized to match.
If you take the ST220 heads and put them on a 2.5L they will bolt on just fine, but you now have a 94mm circle on an 86mm hole. This basically makes the cylinder hold the same amount of air for a larger container. Think of it as taking a cup of water and dumping it into a larger cup.

To add to how engines work, Ford made various changes throughout the years to our engines. They moved oil ports and water passages. Added and deleted them as well. We even have a version here of the engine that doesnt have the water pump running off the camshaft i believe. You have to double and triple check all the openings in the heads to make sure they all match up correctly.

The main question here would be, why do you want to do it?

If you're trying to gain horsepower, that alone wont do it unless the difference in intakes might be able to pull it off. I don't think so because your compression ratio is going down.

If you're purposely trying to lower it so you can for instance add forced induction then sure maybe.

Another thing you have to look at. The 2.5 we have has the IMRC in it. The little butterflies in the lower intake. Unless you get old split port 3.0L heads you're going to loose that and the mounting points for the control box. The ST220 didn't have that. If your engine computer is set up for that system then its going to throw a fault code unless you can get with these fine chaps over there that have figured it out.

You're also either going to need an ST220 intake manifold setup, or fabricate an adaptor to make the 2.5 intake fit the ST220 heads. The ports are different. The ST220 heads are oval port, the 2.5 is split port. Totally different set up all around.

If you're doing this to try and gain power and its a because I want to and not because I have to situation staying naturally aspirated, you need to reverse what you're doing. You need 2.5L heads on an ST220 engine. It gives you the larger bore of the ST220 engine but using the 2.5L heads leaves it totally stock looking for our cars as well as raises the compression ratio.

Im going to apologize now if you made it this far, for me taking up the last 30 minutes of your life with this super long post. I hope it helped though and good luck.

That certainly helped me ! Thanks Dan...
 
Thank you very much for the answer and spend time :) I think about biger valves in st220 heads, but forget about bore and biger combustion chamber. In my plans was got bigger torque. My mondeo is not st200, but on documents is writen 151 kw, because my car came in Lithuania 14 years ago and was damaged. Engine, interior, exterior was sold. I have this car 4 years, and have now problems with engine.

In my next plans is 3.0 l or 2.0l duratec swap. I found for 2.0l duratec more tuning parts, and i think what it gona be cheaper, becouse there is 2 camshaft, 4 piston and 4 injector...

In lithuania isnt so much ford car lovers, especially petrol v6 engine and TDCi is nightmare :D all focus st, RS, mustangs which cames from europe and america is damaged. Then repaired and go back to europe or arabic countrys. Engines from st, rs here is very expensive... st220 engine is cheaper send from uk and Everything is cheaper in uk :)

I have other question, what is better? buy a FF ST for 4000 eu or swap 2.0l engine in mondeo and put 2000eu in modificatins?




 
Thank you very much for the answer and spend time :) I think about biger valves in st220 heads, but forget about bore and biger combustion chamber. In my plans was got bigger torque. My mondeo is not st200, but on documents is writen 151 kw, because my car came in Lithuania 14 years ago and was damaged. Engine, interior, exterior was sold. I have this car 4 years, and have now problems with engine.

In my next plans is 3.0 l or 2.0l duratec swap. I found for 2.0l duratec more tuning parts, and i think what it gona be cheaper, becouse there is 2 camshaft, 4 piston and 4 injector...

In lithuania isnt so much ford car lovers, especially petrol v6 engine and TDCi is nightmare :D all focus st, RS, mustangs which cames from europe and america is damaged. Then repaired and go back to europe or arabic countrys. Engines from st, rs here is very expensive... st220 engine is cheaper send from uk and Everything is cheaper in uk :)

I have other question, what is better? buy a FF ST for 4000 eu or swap 2.0l engine in mondeo and put 2000eu in modificatins?




If your plans are more torque, I wouldn't swap a V6 out for a 4cyl unless you're doing some form of forced induction.
There isn't as many parts for the 6cyl. But that's because alot of cars don't have the 2.5L anymore. Here I believe the 2.5L duratec is a 4cyl now in new engines.

If you want more torque and horsepower out of an almost direct bolt in part, I would go ST220. It has more HP and torque I think by about 20 on each which doesnt sound like alot. But stuck to the Transaxle thats in our cars its insanely improved over stock. In a cougar 1st gear and any serious amount of accelerator pedal and it just wants to spin the tires. I can take off in second gear most of the time because first is too much torque for the car. You cam switch the final drive gears in the transmission to the focus gearing and counteract that some though.

With Using the ST220 engine. The green SVT injectors which I believe may be 19# per hr injectors and the stock tuning it was running good enough that I didn't get a check engine light. To do it right you really need someone to reprogram the stock ECU. Or build your own ECU and open up alot more options.

Hope that helps
 
maybe you know how much i can reprogram stock ECU? how much power can handle st220 crankshaft?
Not sure in your country but in the US for our car to be Dyno tuned I was quoted between 500 and 750 dollars.

The noble uses a variation of the ST220 engine. I think an untouched noble is around 400 HP at the wheels but Ive seen a few on youtube that were over 700hp and one was I seem to remember closer to 900 hp. The cranks are fairly sturdy in our cars. You normally run into oil starvation issues that shred rings or destroy pistons or ever so politely eject part of the rod through the side of the engine block. In a front wheel drive cougar 300hp is pretty much a good stopping point. You're going to go through alot of tires have a whole lot of fun and get into very hairy situations very quickly. Anything over that and you're going to start hitting limitations the rest of the car has. I don't remember which MK version of the Mondy was the same platform as the cougar, but it would be safe to assume that the one which is would suffer the same limitations in performance. Unless you have an AWD version.
Anything else let me know and I'll see if I can help.
 
I don't remember which MK version of the Mondy was the same platform as the cougar,

We call it the Mk2 Mondeo. But as I understand it the truth is that it's actually the facelifted (post-1996) Mk1. Which Ford also calls the Mk2 even though the boxy-shaped Mondeo - slightly related to the Cougar - is known as the Second Generation and is called the MkIII.

In other words, the Cougar is based on the facelifted, CDW27 Mondeo/Mystique. Calling it a Mk2 is both correct and wrong.
 
We call it the Mk2 Mondeo. But as I understand it the truth is that it's actually the facelifted (post-1996) Mk1. Which Ford also calls the Mk2 even though the boxy-shaped Mondeo - slightly related to the Cougar - is known as the Second Generation and is called the MkIII.

In other words, the Cougar is based on the facelifted, CDW27 Mondeo/Mystique. Calling it a Mk2 is both correct and wrong.

Yes thats the one I meant. The CDW27 platform has traction issues after the HP gets so high. As soon as I can afford the parts, we know how Im going to attempt to battle the problem, but stock form 300-350 seems to start issues. With just the 3.0L and its amount above stock on our car it can cause issues with traction. A rolling smoke show looks great and gets alot of attention, but if thats all you got, going to the grocery store in traffic is going to be horrid.
Honestly I cant even count how many times Ive wanted to kick myself in the butt for all the stuff I've done to mine when Im sitting in stop and go traffic amd catching redlights going up and down hills.

From the question of how much HP can the crank take, Im going to assume that you're thinking of forced induction......
With every bolt on possible to buy for the engine, being tuned, and some things made up to make it better, I can tell you for a fact. The crank in the 2.5 will stand up to a 125hp shot of Nitrous down a drag strip repeatedly. So at least 125hp over what you had stock is no biggie.
 
You catch me :D yes i think about forced induction... if i dont found the st220 engine, i think about turbocompresor, or compresor from mercedes-benz in my 2.5 engine. why nobody dont say what st200 have 270NM, i all time thinked what she has 250 NM...
but 270nm is wonderful... whats hapen if put turbo in st200 and give 0.5-0.8 BAR?
how you geting in 2.5 engines 300hp?

And I apologize for my English language skills :)
 
You catch me :D yes i think about forced induction... if i dont found the st220 engine, i think about turbocompresor, or compresor from mercedes-benz in my 2.5 engine. why nobody dont say what st200 have 270NM, i all time thinked what she has 250 NM...
but 270nm is wonderful... whats hapen if put turbo in st200 and give 0.5-0.8 BAR?
how you geting in 2.5 engines 300hp?

And I apologize for my English language skills :)

I think the listing is actually more around 240NM.

300 is only capable with a compressor I think.. either turbo or supercharging.
I know the noble is around 400 stock on a 3.0 but it's twin turbo and unfortunately without creative piping isnt going under our bonnets.

.5 bar is about 7.252 psi. a stock engine, max safely I think is between 6-8 psi. So .5 "should" be ok. It's going to be in the upper limits of what you cam safely do.
After that youll run into normal overboosting problems. Burnt rings, busted pistons and rods. If youre lucky the pieces flying out of the block wont hit anything serious.

If you want to go to .8 bar then you really need to get forged pistons and rods as well as better piston rings. That's one of the things they put in the duratec for noble to make them handle 400hp all the time.
Any type of forced induction really you should upgrade to forged internals and better rings simple for reliability purposes.

No worries about the english Mate. Using the metric system for measuring is way harder for me to understand then what your asking about [emoji16]
 
i dont know what to do... :D
Maybe i can fit UIM and LIM, ECU, injectors from ST220?
Problem is whith UIM, i dont find in lithuania st200 manifold. I am thinking about cold air intake, cone filter, biger TB, msds header( i want take of all catalytics), then biger injectors, reprogram ecu... whats happen if cut the heads and do a 11 or 12:1 compresion? and then maybe E 85 fuel?...

if i dont found manifold, then i think about custom UIM and forced induction...
Maybe know from what steel is made exhost pipes?
 
i dont know what to do... :D
Maybe i can fit UIM and LIM, ECU, injectors from ST220?
Problem is whith UIM, i dont find in lithuania st200 manifold. I am thinking about cold air intake, cone filter, biger TB, msds header( i want take of all catalytics), then biger injectors, reprogram ecu... whats happen if cut the heads and do a 11 or 12:1 compresion? and then maybe E 85 fuel?...

if i dont found manifold, then i think about custom UIM and forced induction...
Maybe know from what steel is made exhost pipes?

My car had a cold air intake, cone filter, ST200 upper intake, a Mustang throttle body I believe is like 65MM, 24# fuel injectors. No cat converters, headers, custom tuning, uprated clutch aluminum flywheel and a bored out LIM and with a 125HP shot of nitrous and drag radials. it was still a 14 second 1/4 mile car. But it had a totally stock set of internal engine parts.

By cut the heads Im guessing you mean port and polish them. I think youll gain HP. Im not the best person on the aspects of what messing with the heads gets you. Mainly because the only thing Ive ever done to heads is port out the inlet ports on an ST220 engine to make the intake setup off of an ST200 work on it.

Raising compression will add HP as well, but if you want Forced Induction I recommend not doing it. The compression ratio is actually lower in a forced induction engine. If you raise it and then go forced induction theres a good chance of breaking the engine.
 
Honestly the biggest bang for buck to start with would be dump the 2.5 totally and put an ST220 engine in. Then start adding stuff to it. A totally converted 2.5 to ST200 specs is going to be about what you start with on an ST220.