Bad Influences....
- Thread starter jamie_duff
- Start date
How long can a thread that started as a complaint about me go on for?? PMSL
forever it would seem
How long can a thread that started as a complaint about me go on for?? PMSL
...it will so long as you keep posting on this thread! lol
The white Rover lives!
Hydraulic gayness is now sorted. If anyone's interested (which is debateable, because I'm not) the Rover T-series (2.0l 16v turbo petrol) and L-series (2.0l 8v turbo diesel) installations in the 600 are nearly identical including the gearbox (although the ratios are different).
The replacement power steering pipe I got came from a good guy I use who sells on Ebay. He's been an absolute gem but this pipe came from the last Ti he broke for parts. It seems that the car he broke had already been modified/repaired though and the previous person had used PAS pipes from a diesel.
A quick check of my own 620 diesel and a conversation with John from Ebay established that the pipes out of the PAS pump are nearly the same on T and L series, but one has a male union and the other a female. The middle pipe is what's really different, with the petrol taking the 'low road' under the gearbox and the diesel taking the 'high road' over the gearbox, but both end in a female union onto a common pipe into the steering rack above the subframe by the firewall.
So, John sent me the middle PAS pipe from a diesel Rover and I routed it as per my diesel 620.
It's done (in the rain), it fits, it works. Woohoo.
Git of a job though - radiator, intercooler and a/c condensor out, alternator out... took a while
Still need a battery and new back discs and pads (rusted away under the pads whilst laid up for over a year outside), but that'll have to wait til next month as I'm skint now
Hydraulic gayness is now sorted. If anyone's interested (which is debateable, because I'm not) the Rover T-series (2.0l 16v turbo petrol) and L-series (2.0l 8v turbo diesel) installations in the 600 are nearly identical including the gearbox (although the ratios are different).
The replacement power steering pipe I got came from a good guy I use who sells on Ebay. He's been an absolute gem but this pipe came from the last Ti he broke for parts. It seems that the car he broke had already been modified/repaired though and the previous person had used PAS pipes from a diesel.
A quick check of my own 620 diesel and a conversation with John from Ebay established that the pipes out of the PAS pump are nearly the same on T and L series, but one has a male union and the other a female. The middle pipe is what's really different, with the petrol taking the 'low road' under the gearbox and the diesel taking the 'high road' over the gearbox, but both end in a female union onto a common pipe into the steering rack above the subframe by the firewall.
So, John sent me the middle PAS pipe from a diesel Rover and I routed it as per my diesel 620.
It's done (in the rain), it fits, it works. Woohoo.
Git of a job though - radiator, intercooler and a/c condensor out, alternator out... took a while
Still need a battery and new back discs and pads (rusted away under the pads whilst laid up for over a year outside), but that'll have to wait til next month as I'm skint now
glad you got the hoses sorted jamie,you will get there eventually with it,iam the same taking the time with black cat and skint to lol
Dunno Pauls - even you would have laughed at some of the ****-ups and cursing today.
Fear not anyway Mr Whitelock; there's still loads for you to do when you next come up
Fear not anyway Mr Whitelock; there's still loads for you to do when you next come up
All you need now is the big spoiler and the garrish decals and you'll be well away Jamie
Heres another one for you as your a Jag lover, I've been saying how NOT much of a good advert for Jag the AA or RAC advert in the press is (i forget which one) because although the car is unbadged its blatantly a Jaguar F-type (The XJ shows up in one of the adverts on the Tv) and low and behold what do I cop eyes on this evening on the way to work, yeah you guessed it a Jaguar F-type on the back of aflat-bed AA truck.....not the first time I've seen one at the side of the road with the bonnet up mind! This was a 4.2L one too
Heres another one for you as your a Jag lover, I've been saying how NOT much of a good advert for Jag the AA or RAC advert in the press is (i forget which one) because although the car is unbadged its blatantly a Jaguar F-type (The XJ shows up in one of the adverts on the Tv) and low and behold what do I cop eyes on this evening on the way to work, yeah you guessed it a Jaguar F-type on the back of aflat-bed AA truck
.....not the first time I've seen one at the side of the road with the bonnet up mind! This was a 4.2L one too
One is not amused!
As part of our pre-MOT checks (I see no sense in submitting a car that wont pass) we discovered that the horns didn't work a few weeks ago. I've been really busy with work and uni but basically we gutted the interior trying to trace wiring around the firewall looking for places where the after market alarm fitters might have screwed up.
We checked the wiring diagrams, proved the fuse was good as it's shared with the brake lights and they worked, transposed relays, swapped horns between Rovers. Nothing. Zip. Nyit.
Anyway, I was all set to jury rig the whole kit & caboodle to get it through it's MOT at the end of the month when my dad visited today and offered to lend a hand.
To cut a long, cold and damp story short, the car is wired differently to the wiring diagrams, the owners' manual and the diagrams printed on the fuse box. The brake lights do not infact share a fuse with the horns. That the brake lights worked didn't actually prove anything at all as all the resources said. There wasn't a fuse fitted in the horn slot afterall. Stick a 20A in there and suddenly 12v appears at the 2 relay pins which are supposed to have it and the horns work.
If MG Rover still existed, they'd all be getting stabbed. Grrrrrrr.
As part of our pre-MOT checks (I see no sense in submitting a car that wont pass) we discovered that the horns didn't work a few weeks ago. I've been really busy with work and uni but basically we gutted the interior trying to trace wiring around the firewall looking for places where the after market alarm fitters might have screwed up.
We checked the wiring diagrams, proved the fuse was good as it's shared with the brake lights and they worked, transposed relays, swapped horns between Rovers. Nothing. Zip. Nyit.
Anyway, I was all set to jury rig the whole kit & caboodle to get it through it's MOT at the end of the month when my dad visited today and offered to lend a hand.
To cut a long, cold and damp story short, the car is wired differently to the wiring diagrams, the owners' manual and the diagrams printed on the fuse box. The brake lights do not infact share a fuse with the horns. That the brake lights worked didn't actually prove anything at all as all the resources said. There wasn't a fuse fitted in the horn slot afterall. Stick a 20A in there and suddenly 12v appears at the 2 relay pins which are supposed to have it and the horns work.
If MG Rover still existed, they'd all be getting stabbed. Grrrrrrr.
Well I'm embarrassed to say it failed it's MOT today.
1) Front discs excessively pitted. Hoped they'd scrub up ok enough to pass. New discs in the post as of this afternoon. They're an absolute PITA to change though...
2) Nearside trackrod end ball joint excessive play. This was recorded on the MOT certificate from 2 years ago, but not mentioned last year. Never mind, it's only £7.99 on Ebay, also bought today.
3) Brake fluid leak from O/S/R. I didn't find a leak, or else I'd have fixed it rather than wasted everyones' time putting it in for a test. Mike (the tester) says it was obvious though, and he asked if I'd tightened up all the unions after changing the back discs and pads last week. I hadn't touched any unions though so I suspect he's been his typical hurry-hurry self and spotted the grease I smeared on the end of a brake pipe which had a little corrosion on the end. I had spotted some corrosion, scraped it off with a screw driver blade and smeared it in grease hoping it would pass.
I haven't got time to faff around with brake pipes and they owe me £35 for the wrong discs Gill paid for last week so I'm changing the front brakes and trackrod this weekend and they're going to look at the alleged leak next Monday and repair if necessary with the outstanding credit or just knock it off the MOT price if it was just my grease he saw...
What's encouraging is that when I drained the oil out of the gearbox there was a complete absence of sparkles in it, which means the oil left when the garage assessed the original driveshaft damage and the PG1 gearbox (known for being a little fragile on the turbos) is in good nick.
The reason for changing the gearbox oil is because on the day we got the horn working, the reverse lights stopped. I removed the switch from the gearbox and went to swap it for the one on the blue car because it kinda worked if you pushed the plunger all the way in with your thumb but not when screwed into the gearbox being pressed by the gear selector. Anyway, when I unscrewed the switch on the blue car, oil came out. That clearly meant the oil level was way down on the turbo. Not good...
It also uses right fancy oil. It has to be MTF94 which costs £21 for 2.5 litres (PG1 gearbox holds 2.3l). Using EP5 series standard gear oils corrodes synchromeshes in the PG1 and has too many properties which vary with temperature. MTF94 is very stable.
Clearly, the PG1 is at it's limits with that sort of power and needs all the help it can get!
1) Front discs excessively pitted. Hoped they'd scrub up ok enough to pass. New discs in the post as of this afternoon. They're an absolute PITA to change though...
2) Nearside trackrod end ball joint excessive play. This was recorded on the MOT certificate from 2 years ago, but not mentioned last year. Never mind, it's only £7.99 on Ebay, also bought today.
3) Brake fluid leak from O/S/R. I didn't find a leak, or else I'd have fixed it rather than wasted everyones' time putting it in for a test. Mike (the tester) says it was obvious though, and he asked if I'd tightened up all the unions after changing the back discs and pads last week. I hadn't touched any unions though so I suspect he's been his typical hurry-hurry self and spotted the grease I smeared on the end of a brake pipe which had a little corrosion on the end. I had spotted some corrosion, scraped it off with a screw driver blade and smeared it in grease hoping it would pass.
I haven't got time to faff around with brake pipes and they owe me £35 for the wrong discs Gill paid for last week so I'm changing the front brakes and trackrod this weekend and they're going to look at the alleged leak next Monday and repair if necessary with the outstanding credit or just knock it off the MOT price if it was just my grease he saw...
What's encouraging is that when I drained the oil out of the gearbox there was a complete absence of sparkles in it, which means the oil left when the garage assessed the original driveshaft damage and the PG1 gearbox (known for being a little fragile on the turbos) is in good nick.
The reason for changing the gearbox oil is because on the day we got the horn working, the reverse lights stopped. I removed the switch from the gearbox and went to swap it for the one on the blue car because it kinda worked if you pushed the plunger all the way in with your thumb but not when screwed into the gearbox being pressed by the gear selector. Anyway, when I unscrewed the switch on the blue car, oil came out. That clearly meant the oil level was way down on the turbo. Not good...
It also uses right fancy oil. It has to be MTF94 which costs £21 for 2.5 litres (PG1 gearbox holds 2.3l). Using EP5 series standard gear oils corrodes synchromeshes in the PG1 and has too many properties which vary with temperature. MTF94 is very stable.
Clearly, the PG1 is at it's limits with that sort of power and needs all the help it can get!
It might be because the Ti has an LSD. My brother has had a 620 Si, and now got a Ti, both cars have the same problem, brakes. Obviously all cars wear out front discs in the end, but why did they make them so hard to change? Even his garage refused to do them after a couple of attempts, one of which resulted in knackering the bearings.
Yep mine's a 1997 so it has the Torsen B diff... nice diff, but maybe a little underengineered for 5 years of careful driving followed by 8 years of numpties buying them for pennies and ragging the RSs of them...
The front brakes are a real pain. I've changed the front discs on the diesel at least 4 times. They're just too small. Last time I replaced the calipers and discs with the 282mm items as per Ti and Automatics. They're much better and seem to be lasting ok.
I know exactly why they went for this stupid system of fitting the discs behind the hubs, and it wasn't Rover who came up with it, it was Honda. It's because they've gone for a double wishbone suspension but needed enough space between the inner wings for a transverse mounted engine & gearbox with FWD. Had they gone for conventional disc mounting they'd have needed shorter wishbones which is bad for long and linear suspension travel and they'd have needed an obscene offset on the wheels.
There are 4 bolts holding the the hub carrier into the large cast knuckle. What you're supposed to do is remove the 36mm driveshaft end nut, crack the 4 bolts holding the disc to the hub, remove the caliper, split the lower balljoint (needs a special splitter), pull the hub from the driveshaft, then release those 4 little bolts and the wheel bearing in it's entirety falls out of the knuckle complete with hub and disc. Removing the pre-cracked bolts through the disc into the hub then lets you remove the disc.
What's always happened to me (and loads of others too) is you get as far as those 4 little bolts holding the hub carrier into the knuckle and find that either:
a) the heads have already been rounded off or
b) the last person to touch this was a ham-fisted ape with muscles the size of Manchester and a brain the size of a bacteria, who has done his best to torque them up to 250lb/ft (just so the wheels don't fall off, like) thus meaning they're as good as welded in and any attempt to remove them results in option a)
So you have to put the driveshaft back in, reseat the lower balljoint and use the hub puller to tug the wheel bearing apart. Touch wood, mine are still fine at 178k on the blue on and I first split them over 100,000 miles ago. So long as they're kept immaculately clean whilst separated and they're rejoined without getting flakes of rust into the race, they seem ok.
I'll try to do this one properly but going by the standard of workmanship I've already found on much of this car, I don't hold out much hope for being able to get those four little bolts out...
And another thing! Why are people so obsessed with torquing things until their faces turn bright purple? It's not going to unscrew itself you know! That's why you silly tw*ts (clue - the * isn't a letter "i") who are guilty of this are forever rounding heads off, or just shearing heads off, or stripping threads etc. It's only cylinder heads and driveshaft end nuts for pre-loading the wheel bearings which need monumental torques...
The front brakes are a real pain. I've changed the front discs on the diesel at least 4 times. They're just too small. Last time I replaced the calipers and discs with the 282mm items as per Ti and Automatics. They're much better and seem to be lasting ok.
I know exactly why they went for this stupid system of fitting the discs behind the hubs, and it wasn't Rover who came up with it, it was Honda. It's because they've gone for a double wishbone suspension but needed enough space between the inner wings for a transverse mounted engine & gearbox with FWD. Had they gone for conventional disc mounting they'd have needed shorter wishbones which is bad for long and linear suspension travel and they'd have needed an obscene offset on the wheels.
There are 4 bolts holding the the hub carrier into the large cast knuckle. What you're supposed to do is remove the 36mm driveshaft end nut, crack the 4 bolts holding the disc to the hub, remove the caliper, split the lower balljoint (needs a special splitter), pull the hub from the driveshaft, then release those 4 little bolts and the wheel bearing in it's entirety falls out of the knuckle complete with hub and disc. Removing the pre-cracked bolts through the disc into the hub then lets you remove the disc.
What's always happened to me (and loads of others too) is you get as far as those 4 little bolts holding the hub carrier into the knuckle and find that either:
a) the heads have already been rounded off or
b) the last person to touch this was a ham-fisted ape with muscles the size of Manchester and a brain the size of a bacteria, who has done his best to torque them up to 250lb/ft (just so the wheels don't fall off, like) thus meaning they're as good as welded in and any attempt to remove them results in option a)
So you have to put the driveshaft back in, reseat the lower balljoint and use the hub puller to tug the wheel bearing apart. Touch wood, mine are still fine at 178k on the blue on and I first split them over 100,000 miles ago. So long as they're kept immaculately clean whilst separated and they're rejoined without getting flakes of rust into the race, they seem ok.
I'll try to do this one properly but going by the standard of workmanship I've already found on much of this car, I don't hold out much hope for being able to get those four little bolts out...
And another thing! Why are people so obsessed with torquing things until their faces turn bright purple? It's not going to unscrew itself you know! That's why you silly tw*ts (clue - the * isn't a letter "i") who are guilty of this are forever rounding heads off, or just shearing heads off, or stripping threads etc. It's only cylinder heads and driveshaft end nuts for pre-loading the wheel bearings which need monumental torques...
I hate that too Jamie, especialy when you go to change a wheel after its been in the garage and they've used an air-wrench to do up the nuts, you have to practicaly step on the wheel wrench to loosen them.
MOTd, insured, newly taxed, and driven.
Think it needs more more work... one wheel bearing is noisy. I'll re-check the torques on the driveshaft end nuts. One CV joint knocked-on-lock doing a quick U-turn at the end of the quick drive (no fuel in it...) but wouldn't do it again when looking for it at home. Hmmm. Maybe the LSD has something to do with it. I'll take it to a carpark and try faster circles than I can do in the cul-de-sac.
I think the broken exhaust manifold stud will need addressing too. Maybe will have to remove the cylinder head afterall... joy.
I wasn't brave enough to nail it from 1st. It's got brand new brakes all round and it's weeing down with rain. Not the ideal time or place... It's quite strong through the other gears though, but the turbo needs some time. It's not particularly laggy like large turbos are, but it's not as flexible as NA. Throttle response is sharp but there's no torque for a few seconds if at low rpm.
That turbo Mark's mate is putting on the Zetec Cougar will need 30 days notice in writing
Think it needs more more work... one wheel bearing is noisy. I'll re-check the torques on the driveshaft end nuts. One CV joint knocked-on-lock doing a quick U-turn at the end of the quick drive (no fuel in it...) but wouldn't do it again when looking for it at home. Hmmm. Maybe the LSD has something to do with it. I'll take it to a carpark and try faster circles than I can do in the cul-de-sac.
I think the broken exhaust manifold stud will need addressing too. Maybe will have to remove the cylinder head afterall... joy.
I wasn't brave enough to nail it from 1st. It's got brand new brakes all round and it's weeing down with rain. Not the ideal time or place... It's quite strong through the other gears though, but the turbo needs some time. It's not particularly laggy like large turbos are, but it's not as flexible as NA. Throttle response is sharp but there's no torque for a few seconds if at low rpm.
That turbo Mark's mate is putting on the Zetec Cougar will need 30 days notice in writing
That turbo Mark's mate is putting on the Zetec Cougar will need 30 days notice in writing
Should help having the 360 deg thrust bearing but yeah it will be a little laggy even though physically it looks enormous it's actually equivalent to a hybrid t3.75 + with the head work and larger valves fuelling and induction should be makedly improved finally it is down to the mapping (that's when the fun should start) a contact from the us has sent us a base map from a similar set up. Also mega squirt comes with a base zetec map so if we can get the b****r started then we may be calling on a certain admin to lend a hand with far superior computing knowledge.
The system also utilises a wide band oxygen sensor so should lend itself to more flexible mapping.
TBH Jamie sounds like yours needs a bit of running and maybe a rolling road give you more of an inclination as to problems if any! the old girl maybe suffering. These where always a very underestimated little rocket.
Should help having the 360 deg thrust bearing but yeah it will be a little laggy even though physically it looks enormous it's actually equivalent to a hybrid t3.75 + with the head work and larger valves fuelling and induction should be makedly improved finally it is down to the mapping (that's when the fun should start) a contact from the us has sent us a base map from a similar set up. Also mega squirt comes with a base zetec map so if we can get the b****r started then we may be calling on a certain admin to lend a hand with far superior computing knowledge.
The system also utilises a wide band oxygen sensor so should lend itself to more flexible mapping.
TBH Jamie sounds like yours needs a bit of running and maybe a rolling road give you more of an inclination as to problems if any! the old girl maybe suffering. These where always a very underestimated little rocket.
I think you're right Mark. I'm really looking forward to trying to get this broken stud out of the cylinder head now
If I'm going to all the trouble of taking it all apart then I'd be quite keen to get a decent used T28 from a Pulsar or 200SX and a bigger intercooler. A little extra power wouldn't go amiss but not to the stage of needing new pistons for it - it's wrong-wheel-drive to spend too much time and effort on!
If I'm going to all the trouble of taking it all apart then I'd be quite keen to get a decent used T28 from a Pulsar or 200SX and a bigger intercooler. A little extra power wouldn't go amiss but not to the stage of needing new pistons for it - it's wrong-wheel-drive to spend too much time and effort on!
I'm having some fun with this now... I could do with new front anti-roll bar bushes though. The front ARB is also constrains the lower control arms in the longitudinal plane. That's a fancy way of saying that lots on fore/aft load on the front wheels is taken by the antiroll bar. Squishy bushes thus equals a lot of torque steer. Infact, it torque steers like a pig... still, it's quite quick.
I blew the intake hose off the throttle body the other morning which was alarming when it first happened. I've blown a hole in same pipe on the diesel one twice, so I was relieved to see it had just blown off the TB. The jubilee clip is pretty tight now because I don't fancy that happening when I'm overtaking...
It definately wants a new CV joint. It knocks a fair bit now.
Lastly, I might have a small air lock or sticky thermostat because the temperature gauge wanders a little (low to middle) and the heater temperature varies a bit. Shouldn't be anything too serious...
Other than that, it drives well. I'm really impressed by the torque curve. With a manual boost controller it would be better still.
I've humped quite a few people wearing sunglasses this past week who tailgated a while then tried to overtake on roundabouts etc. First victim was an Insignia 2.0T SRi. Tonight some little kid with a Fiesta ST150 got to look silly when following me right up my trumpet and straddling the white lines all the way home on single carriage way (I was following someone else who was doing around 45~50). He was gagging to get past all the way and once the dual carriage way bit came along his headlights were dipping up and down as he jabbed at the throttle in anticipation. I chose 3rd gear, let him change lanes then booted it. Whilst 2 headlights got closer together in the mirror I backed off at 70 and eventually he caught up and passed me at about 85
This car is awesome for surprising people. I'm loving the crinkled grins on peoples' faces as they watch an old fart's car pull away from them
I blew the intake hose off the throttle body the other morning which was alarming when it first happened. I've blown a hole in same pipe on the diesel one twice, so I was relieved to see it had just blown off the TB. The jubilee clip is pretty tight now because I don't fancy that happening when I'm overtaking...
It definately wants a new CV joint. It knocks a fair bit now.
Lastly, I might have a small air lock or sticky thermostat because the temperature gauge wanders a little (low to middle) and the heater temperature varies a bit. Shouldn't be anything too serious...
Other than that, it drives well. I'm really impressed by the torque curve. With a manual boost controller it would be better still.
I've humped quite a few people wearing sunglasses this past week who tailgated a while then tried to overtake on roundabouts etc. First victim was an Insignia 2.0T SRi. Tonight some little kid with a Fiesta ST150 got to look silly when following me right up my trumpet and straddling the white lines all the way home on single carriage way (I was following someone else who was doing around 45~50). He was gagging to get past all the way and once the dual carriage way bit came along his headlights were dipping up and down as he jabbed at the throttle in anticipation. I chose 3rd gear, let him change lanes then booted it. Whilst 2 headlights got closer together in the mirror I backed off at 70 and eventually he caught up and passed me at about 85
This car is awesome for surprising people. I'm loving the crinkled grins on peoples' faces as they watch an old fart's car pull away from them
thats what the car was designed for there are a few ROVER inspired owners clubs running tricked Ti's you should check them out (I do remember one showing up in Max Power once a long time ago, but unfortunatly I sold all my copies)....it was a RED one, something stupid like 400Bhp IIRC.
Hopefully the last installment in this thread is that the Rover 620ti's time with me is now approaching it's end. The MOT and tax are due, and it needs a new caliper and exhaust front pipe. It'll be getting those, a new MOT and then it's gone.
I bought Gill a new car on Sunday which we collect on Friday. I did really consider the X100 XKR but don't fancy the bills yet, and don't really want a 4.0 engine because there are a few issues with those and the 4.2 which replaced it corrected them all, and produces 40 extra horse powers. Nice 4.2 XKRs cost a lot though, and they have big running bills. I'm not 100% in love with the interior, and really have my heart set on an X150 (alloy body) XKR but they're still worth about 3 times what I wanted to spend.
So we bought this:
http://www.cottagecars.co.uk/Cars/Executive/bk55jfx/bk55jfx.htm
That'll hopefully be the end of my car chopping & changing for a few years, as we'll now have two sensible cars that serve our purposes without constantly having something which doesn't work.
Amen!
I bought Gill a new car on Sunday which we collect on Friday. I did really consider the X100 XKR but don't fancy the bills yet, and don't really want a 4.0 engine because there are a few issues with those and the 4.2 which replaced it corrected them all, and produces 40 extra horse powers. Nice 4.2 XKRs cost a lot though, and they have big running bills. I'm not 100% in love with the interior, and really have my heart set on an X150 (alloy body) XKR but they're still worth about 3 times what I wanted to spend.
So we bought this:
http://www.cottagecars.co.uk/Cars/Executive/bk55jfx/bk55jfx.htm
That'll hopefully be the end of my car chopping & changing for a few years, as we'll now have two sensible cars that serve our purposes without constantly having something which doesn't work.
Amen!