help!

spacychick

Well-known user
Apr 25, 2015
248
136
Northamptonshire
Hi All,

I would like to post a question regarding a problem with my cougar but cant find the correct area on the forum,could someone point me in the right direction please?

Many thanks :)
 
The usual 'problems' section is for subscribed members only, but i'm sure if you let us know what your problem is we'll see what we can do ;-)
 
Welcome aboard!

Post away in this thread :) we can always move ot to a more appropriate area later if needs be.

I'm in Northampton myself and we have a few guys local to you :)
 
great thanks, didn't want to post in the wrong place :) ok so this is the story.... 29th March on the M1 my ickle baby got slightly warm and the water pump went, the belt shredded and 2 fire engines and traffic police later I was towed home by the AA. My mechanic replaced the water pump and belt and all was well for a week, drove to the sea side, airport no problems. I had to top the water up once a week later after the new pump which my mechanic said might happen but it went down hill from there, constantly had to top up, I drive 5mins up the road and the fan kicks in and sounds like its overheating, starts perfect but seems to be when it warms up it chugs, cuts out etc its back with the mechanic now and he cant see it leaking (no signs on the floor when it was outside my house) he has now done a engine diagnostic test and 5 error codes has shown (I don't know what they are yet) I should find out tomorrow. its a V6 25l. reading a little seems it could be the HG :( ? any thoughts?
 
To be blunt, it doesn't sound promising.

If the engine got "that" hot, it's likely to have done some quite catastrophic damage to the engine.

Did the mechanic suggest anything like a pressure test or other sort of head-gaskets-not-b0lloxed type test after getting the vehicle in? The requirement to refill the coolant system directly as a result of a new-water pump is nil once the systems been bled etc.

Where are you in Northants by the way?
 
He did a pressure test on the water system and there is pressure there...... it doesn't appear it needs a cylinder pressure test as the engine runs fine when its cold but it starts pinking when it get hot, there is no froth around the oil filter cap :/

Im in Corby :)
 
He did a pressure test on the water system and there is pressure there...... it doesn't appear it needs a cylinder pressure test as the engine runs fine when its cold but it starts pinking when it get hot, there is no froth around the oil filter cap :/

Im in Corby :)
It's normally "too much pressure" which causes the issues. The emulsification is a good indicator but it's not a 'cardinal sign', depends where the leak occurs.

Can you smell any sort of fumes when you open the expansion tank after it's been run? (Obviously with due diligence!) This could be entirely unrelated, but simply if it's not leaking, then it's being turned to steam, there aren't a lot of options bar those two.

Other option could be a jammed open rad-cap vent but that wouldn't explain the running issues. Do you have any steam escaping form the exhaust once it's up to temperature? Check the top-hose too, if that's suddenly going rock hard as the engine warms that could be a sign exhaust gas is filling the system.

Essentially;
- Poor 'hot' running
- Overheating
- Coolant consumption
- Rapid temperature increases.....

Usually (but not always) point to the dreaded. Corby, you're not far away from me, I'll keep an eye out but it's about the only Northants town I never visit for work.
 
There is steam coming out of the exhaust all the time, I do hope its not the HG, I understand there are 2 on mine, big expensive job? would that show up in the 5 error codes that have come up? tis odd, he runs lovely when cold but on the road for 5mins and its overheating. Sorry about all the questions, I just don't want to have to put him to the big garage in the sky!!
 
There is steam coming out of the exhaust all the time, I do hope its not the HG, I understand there are 2 on mine, big expensive job? would that show up in the 5 error codes that have come up? tis odd, he runs lovely when cold but on the road for 5mins and its overheating. Sorry about all the questions, I just don't want to have to put him to the big garage in the sky!!
Steam out of the exhaust all the time means, I'm afraid (as a snap internet diagnosis) it's time for a new engine.

If I can be so bold (I'm not famed for my tact sometimes) would be to instruct whoever is currently doing the work to prove that the headgasket(s) haven't failed before ordering any other sort of work. You could spend forever chasing fault codes but overlook the obvious. I'm suprised this wasn't confirmed before handing the car back after the pump replacement, as a 'cooked' engine is going to be in a bad shape the majority of the time.

Spontaneous head-gasket failures on these engines are vanishingly rare, **if I were you** I'd be getting a very clear "yes/no" answer on the headgasket(s) then have the engine replaced. They're not expensive or difficult to come by.

A head removal, head machining (if they can be saved), gaskets, chain removal/renewal & sundries will outstrip the worth of the fitted engine quickly.
 
when the pump went where would all the steam in the bonnet escape from? as there wasn't any obvious 'holes' in pipes or cap off the water pump?(that might be a very obvious question lol) can I ask how he proves to me that the HG has/hasn't gone?
 
when the pump went where would all the steam in the bonnet escape from? as there wasn't any obvious 'holes' in pipes or cap off the water pump?(that might be a very obvious question lol) can I ask how he proves to me that the HG has/hasn't gone?

When the pump went steam would have probably escaped from any 'weak' points in the system - the engine has become a boiler and as there is minimal (although, before it's pointed out, some) circulation through the radiator to cool the water back down again. A lot of the steam would have escaped through the radiator cap which has a safety vent to stop pipes or the radiator bursting (if you look under the radiator cap you'll see it's quite chunky, there is a poppet valve in there).

The main issue though is that the cylinder heads can not cope with extreme heat stress and like all metals hit a point where they will expand, itself not an issue when it is controlled but hot-spots and irregular cooling will mean the head will warp (not dissimilar to leaving a vinyl record near a radiator) this means that the headgasket no longer seals properly. The headgasket exists to keep combustion gas, coolant and oil all separated from each other - if it doesn't seal you could end up with any mixture you choose. Often if you've got oil finding it's merry way in to the cooling system you'll get the dreaded 'mayonnaise' buildup, but it's as likely you'll get exhaust gasses finding their way in to the cooling system, and coolant leaking in to the cylinders.

To check, well there are loads of ways, but the more 'acid' tests would be;

-Use a test kit to check the coolant for traces of exhaust gas (pretty conclusive, but the test kits are a consumable);
- Use an MOT gas 'sniffer' to sniff the coolant expansion tank and see if it registers exhaust gas in the expansion tank;
- Pressure test the cooling system without the plugs in, if the pressure creeps down something is probably leaking in to the cylinders;
- Examine the plugs to see if they've got traces of coolant on them;
- Steam in the exhaust gas on a hot engine means that some coolant is likely to be finding it's way in to the engine, obviously water isn't flamable but generates steam, when combined with exhaust gas this looks like 'white smoke' and tends to plume constantly;
- Just general "vibes" - which can be a pretty useful indicator too.

I'd take two positives of any of those tests as a certainty all is not well. The biggest factor is that the engine is known to have overheated, itself a very common cause of headgasket failure.
 
this sounds to me like a water circulation problem ,pinking when hot suggests the combustion chambers are getting too hot(pinking) and if the water isnt moving sufficiently around these it will boil(your leak and steam problem)....has the stat been checked as it could be out of temp range?
especially if the pump belt went originally as it would have had extreme temperatures around it and ive seen them explode and jam shut. it is important that if any engine pinks loudly/continuously it is in severe stress and must be turned off immediately ..how long did you drive it with steam coming out..and has it been run dry after the pump change or has it always had some in it...just needed topping up.
to me something dont sound right about that pump, there is a shield plate inside the pump housing that is known for coming loose and causing this type of thing.. and could have even been the cause for your belt snapping.your mechanic didn't just put it back in did he..if he has he'd have messed up the new pump as it'l come loose again putting u back to square one..
as for using water after the repair ,if filled properly initially (and i accept they can be a swine to fill up) it shouldn't use anymore...and the fact that it is means a leak which will cause pressure loss when driving and an inevitable boil..
b4 writing the engine off please get the obvious checked including the pump and its housing...don't assume because its been replaced its ok..
 
Thanks for the replies, I had spoken to my mechanic and seems he has done all you have said, the car has sat at his place for about a week now, he took the lid off the expansion tank and it has a very strong smell of petrol. He said that is definitely is the HG gone due to that smell? I'm now thinking of buying an engine for him as the rest of the car is pretty sound? worth it or time to let him go to heaven?!

- - - Updated - - -

i also have the 5 error codes: P0402:p1131:p1151:p0117 & P0302, goggled a few but they don't mean much to me :/ would replacing the engine rectify those codes?
 
Thanks for the replies, I had spoken to my mechanic and seems he has done all you have said, the car has sat at his place for about a week now, he took the lid off the expansion tank and it has a very strong smell of petrol. He said that is definitely is the HG gone due to that smell? I'm now thinking of buying an engine for him as the rest of the car is pretty sound? worth it or time to let him go to heaven?!

- - - Updated - - -

i also have the 5 error codes: P0402:p1131:p1151:p0117 & P0302, goggled a few but they don't mean much to me :/ would replacing the engine rectify those codes?

Fuel vapour in the coolant, after what happened to your engine, is almost certainly head gasket failure on one or both banks. The head gasket is a fuse, just like one in an electric circuit. It's designed to let go before anything else does to stop your engine turning into a grenade.

Problem is, these are old ladies and HGF - rare though it is - is a killer in terms of cost. If you think (the rest of) your car is worth it, get a refurb engine from somewhere (around £150 or so) and get it fitted. The fitting... won't be cheap.

::EDIT:: You might find this site interesting. Long story short, you're running lean, misfiring, and your catalyst is shagged. The lean running is common, but the others - with the other symptoms - definitely say HGF.

I wish you the best of luck.
 
The catalyst(s) in my opinion could well be healthy, water vapour doesn't really interfere with them, infact they can be physically cleaned in water. However water vapour will interfere (reversibly) with these type of oxygen sensors.

The codes however are moot point, they're pretty meaningless at this stage in the game.

I also doubt you'll get a refurbished engine for £150, but at this price point you should get at least a working one with a basic warranty and a chunk of life left in it.
 
The catalyst(s) in my opinion could well be healthy, water vapour doesn't really interfere with them

I agree. It doesn't. But that assumes that the HGF hasn't failed oil-to-water as well. We haven't seen the car and so can't say, but petrol fumes in the coolant suggest that it has. And the oil system runs at higher pressure and heat capacity than the coolant after shutdown. You do remember the K-Series, right?

Ford engines are known for surviving the worst conditions, so how long has this engine had a problem? How long has blow-by oil been contaminating the cats?

infact they can be physically cleaned in water.

Not if they're oil contaminated.

I also doubt you'll get a refurbished engine for £150, but at this price point you should get at least a working one with a basic warranty and a chunk of life left in it.

Again, I disagree. But whether you would put a £150 engine in your car is a separate conversation that I don't want to have. Sorry about that.