You'd need it weighed in tbh to get a value for scrap. If the chain has snapped you could be into all sorts of internal damage depending on the events during and following the chain snapping. If it went on turnover and the engine hasn't been turned since, damage could be minimal however if it was running when it happened or someone has sat cranking it then I'd leave well alone.
Shagmonkey's Cougar
- Thread starter joyrider
- Start date
The best way forward is to buy my car which is a great car to start with for your project
Its never been fcucked about with mechanically
If the internals are all going to be replaced with stronger parts would that make any difference??
The best way forward is to buy my car which is a great car to start with for your project
Its never been fcucked about with mechanically
LOL - thanks for the kind offer but I already have my Cat - lovely black beast - trying to sell my other Cat aswell
I got my fully working engine with approx 60k miles from a 2004 donor for just over 400 quid.
If it was me is walk away and look for a runner as kully said a lot of unknowns and I've never heard of a chain snapping so it could mean its been ragged to death and generally not looked after
If it was me is walk away and look for a runner as kully said a lot of unknowns and I've never heard of a chain snapping so it could mean its been ragged to death and generally not looked after
An engine with a broken timing chain raises a few questions. First of all - why did the chain break in the first place? That really should happen. I'd expect to find the the chains themselves knackered (obviously), severe damage to the guides and tensioners and potentially to the sprockets too - both crankshaft and camshafts.
I'll admit I don't know the routing of the oil galleries on the Duratec very well - the chains are wet though so as a minimum the sump will be full of debris. Let's be optimistic and assume that there has been no scoring damage to bottom end from fragments in the oil. The high pressure stuff like the actual crankshaft main bearings and big ends is filtered first, but it's possible debris has been caught between a conrod and a crankshaft counterweight and scored both.
Damage consequential to a timing chain failure would include, as a minimum, bent valves. Bent valves often stuff their valve guides, and in extreme cases I've heard of cast camshafts fracturing or indeed the cast aluminium caps or the heads themselves fracturing or cracking under reactions to valve-piston contact. Onto the pistons themselves; I've seen as little as the carbon being knocked off the piston crowns with no damage to the pistons themselves (this was an early 90s Renault engine that was only just an interference engine, and the timing belt broke on start up, so it was doing tens of RPM at the time, not thousands. I've also seen pistons with holes punched clean through the crowns with or without the valve head broken off and embedded in it. Sometimes, and possibly more dangerously, I've seen pistons which kinda looked ok but had cracked around the crowns or ringlands. If you were a bit gungho you could carry on and build the engine, only for it to fail spectacularly shortly afterwards.
I'll be honest with you - I've only stripped and rebuilt a couple of car engines. I've stripped and rebuilt quite a few for light aeroplanes though, some of which were automotive conversions. Others who do this for a living can feel free to correct me if they disagree, but in general I think it's fair to say that most engines can be rebuilt if they're stripped and rebuilt as soon as an observant operator notices they aren't running right. When an engine is run until it no longer runs, in my experience that tends to go hand in hand with there being very little left in a useable state afterwards. That's less true with something like an air cooled VW for which you can literally buy any component new with ease. I think it's very true for an engine like the Duratec for which the manufacturer is unwilling or unable to provide spares backup.
Assuming you can get replacement components, with engine rebuilding you always have this chicken & egg period of having to commit to machining work to see how much you need to grind the crankshaft down by, or the cylinder bores out by before you know which undersize of bearings you need or oversize of pistons you need. Before you can start machining though, you need to know which undersizes of bearings and oversizes of pistons are even available. Getting STD size parts for the Duratec is hard enough.
Parts are available. Not all of them, but I know bearings are. I don't know where from, but I know others such as charliecd001 on here has rebuilt a few of these so he must have a source.
I'm just cautioning you on the folly of buying a non-runner. If you're sure you know exactly what's wrong with it and you know them and the parts catalogues inside out then you may get a bargain. Chances are, most folk will get a big paperweight though. I personally think you'll have enough to worry about with all the upgrades you want to do. When you first fire up a rebuilt engine, you want to know the rest of the installation (fuel system, wiring looms, ECU etc) work properly - otherwise you're never going to know whether any issues are the engine or the installation. If you buy a running engine then as a minimum it can be used as a known runner to get the rest of the car working around it, before progressing with the rest of the power increase.
Personally I like to do things in stages. If something doesn't work you can undo the last thing you did and work out what's wrong. I think a lot of people can find themselves at a dead end by doing the whole lot of different, new and unknown changes in one go and then have no clue where to start looking when it doesn't work. Most new things don't work first time. Successful projects are all about breaking things down into bite sized chunks which you can start and complete as you go. Unless you've done this upgrade a few times already, you'll be up to your neck in loose ends before you know it
My advice:
1) Get a Zetec, but if you won't do that, choose which V6 you want to use.
2) Get that engine running in the car as it is. You've plenty of electrical & plumbing to do, so it's not a waste of time offering the new engine up then removing it again - you don't rip everything back out. The new looms and ECU stay with the car, only you know they work, before you start interfering with the engine.
3) Remove engine, fit your new exhaust headers and either supercharger or turbosuperchargers, intercooler and pipework, the reinstall engine with new clutch. Install any drivetrain upgrades you want at this time.
4) Test it, thoroughly. Clock up a few thousand miles on it and get the "shake down" period over. Establish what mechanical or electrical gremlins you've introduced and resolve them.
5) Do the bodywork that you want done.
If you must have some half wit fit one of those god-awful aftermarket alarms using Scotch-blok on the wiring looms to wake up the neighbours with a false alarm once a fortnight, whilst introducing new and undesirable electrical 'features' then get that done at Step 1. You really don't need some muppet hacking up your ignition and immobiliser wiring while you're trying to get a new installation working. I have a rather dim view of 'professionals' who fit alarms. I've only seen 4 of them and they were all horrific abominations. I'm sure there's someone on the planet who can do it properly, but until someone points him out to me I'll run away screaming at the sight of a car with an aftermarket alarm. Actually, I'm that retentative that it drives me mad if the OE keyfob doesn't work!
I'll admit I don't know the routing of the oil galleries on the Duratec very well - the chains are wet though so as a minimum the sump will be full of debris. Let's be optimistic and assume that there has been no scoring damage to bottom end from fragments in the oil. The high pressure stuff like the actual crankshaft main bearings and big ends is filtered first, but it's possible debris has been caught between a conrod and a crankshaft counterweight and scored both.
Damage consequential to a timing chain failure would include, as a minimum, bent valves. Bent valves often stuff their valve guides, and in extreme cases I've heard of cast camshafts fracturing or indeed the cast aluminium caps or the heads themselves fracturing or cracking under reactions to valve-piston contact. Onto the pistons themselves; I've seen as little as the carbon being knocked off the piston crowns with no damage to the pistons themselves (this was an early 90s Renault engine that was only just an interference engine, and the timing belt broke on start up, so it was doing tens of RPM at the time, not thousands. I've also seen pistons with holes punched clean through the crowns with or without the valve head broken off and embedded in it. Sometimes, and possibly more dangerously, I've seen pistons which kinda looked ok but had cracked around the crowns or ringlands. If you were a bit gungho you could carry on and build the engine, only for it to fail spectacularly shortly afterwards.
I'll be honest with you - I've only stripped and rebuilt a couple of car engines. I've stripped and rebuilt quite a few for light aeroplanes though, some of which were automotive conversions. Others who do this for a living can feel free to correct me if they disagree, but in general I think it's fair to say that most engines can be rebuilt if they're stripped and rebuilt as soon as an observant operator notices they aren't running right. When an engine is run until it no longer runs, in my experience that tends to go hand in hand with there being very little left in a useable state afterwards. That's less true with something like an air cooled VW for which you can literally buy any component new with ease. I think it's very true for an engine like the Duratec for which the manufacturer is unwilling or unable to provide spares backup.
Assuming you can get replacement components, with engine rebuilding you always have this chicken & egg period of having to commit to machining work to see how much you need to grind the crankshaft down by, or the cylinder bores out by before you know which undersize of bearings you need or oversize of pistons you need. Before you can start machining though, you need to know which undersizes of bearings and oversizes of pistons are even available. Getting STD size parts for the Duratec is hard enough.
Parts are available. Not all of them, but I know bearings are. I don't know where from, but I know others such as charliecd001 on here has rebuilt a few of these so he must have a source.
I'm just cautioning you on the folly of buying a non-runner. If you're sure you know exactly what's wrong with it and you know them and the parts catalogues inside out then you may get a bargain. Chances are, most folk will get a big paperweight though. I personally think you'll have enough to worry about with all the upgrades you want to do. When you first fire up a rebuilt engine, you want to know the rest of the installation (fuel system, wiring looms, ECU etc) work properly - otherwise you're never going to know whether any issues are the engine or the installation. If you buy a running engine then as a minimum it can be used as a known runner to get the rest of the car working around it, before progressing with the rest of the power increase.
Personally I like to do things in stages. If something doesn't work you can undo the last thing you did and work out what's wrong. I think a lot of people can find themselves at a dead end by doing the whole lot of different, new and unknown changes in one go and then have no clue where to start looking when it doesn't work. Most new things don't work first time. Successful projects are all about breaking things down into bite sized chunks which you can start and complete as you go. Unless you've done this upgrade a few times already, you'll be up to your neck in loose ends before you know it
My advice:
1) Get a Zetec, but if you won't do that, choose which V6 you want to use.
2) Get that engine running in the car as it is. You've plenty of electrical & plumbing to do, so it's not a waste of time offering the new engine up then removing it again - you don't rip everything back out. The new looms and ECU stay with the car, only you know they work, before you start interfering with the engine.
3) Remove engine, fit your new exhaust headers and either supercharger or turbosuperchargers, intercooler and pipework, the reinstall engine with new clutch. Install any drivetrain upgrades you want at this time.
4) Test it, thoroughly. Clock up a few thousand miles on it and get the "shake down" period over. Establish what mechanical or electrical gremlins you've introduced and resolve them.
5) Do the bodywork that you want done.
If you must have some half wit fit one of those god-awful aftermarket alarms using Scotch-blok on the wiring looms to wake up the neighbours with a false alarm once a fortnight, whilst introducing new and undesirable electrical 'features' then get that done at Step 1. You really don't need some muppet hacking up your ignition and immobiliser wiring while you're trying to get a new installation working. I have a rather dim view of 'professionals' who fit alarms. I've only seen 4 of them and they were all horrific abominations. I'm sure there's someone on the planet who can do it properly, but until someone points him out to me I'll run away screaming at the sight of a car with an aftermarket alarm. Actually, I'm that retentative that it drives me mad if the OE keyfob doesn't work!
It's being put back together right now mate as I had the whole engine stripped and checked, the heads cleaned and various bits replaced and I've also upgraded a couple of bits to help unleash a few more horses. Hoping for end of Feb to pick it up
One further thing to consider - find out how much you'll be to insure a heavily modified car. We're not talking cosmetics here. Most insurance companies will slam the door in your face on first mention of the mods, leaving you at the mercy of a very small number who will insure it, but can charge whatever they like. Will you need engineers reports etc?
Also, lets assume this sums up to £5k to do. Have a look at what you can buy and drive home in that'll sort out your mate's Volvo for under £5k which you can resell to anyone for a similar figure and insure pretty much anywhere.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/...o/5000/body-type/coupe/price-from/3000/page/4
Also, lets assume this sums up to £5k to do. Have a look at what you can buy and drive home in that'll sort out your mate's Volvo for under £5k which you can resell to anyone for a similar figure and insure pretty much anywhere.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/...o/5000/body-type/coupe/price-from/3000/page/4
My ears were burning !!!
Hello everyone !!!
Thundercat!!...hhmmm.....so much potential, but too many muppets i think sums it up quite well ! lol
Hello everyone !!!
Thundercat!!...hhmmm.....so much potential, but too many muppets i think sums it up quite well ! lol
Think you put most people off modifying car engines at least lol.
Looking through the Burton performance catalogue and there are a few things for the V6 but mostly standard parts, they do have the Quaife ATB LSD for the MTX75 gearbox but its £659.95
Pistons are available too, oh and that mental throttle body kit with the 6 separate throttle bodies
modifying car engines at least lol. Looking through the Burton performance catalogue and there are a few things for the V6 but mostly standard parts, they do have the Quaife ATB LSD for the MTX75 gearbox but its £659.95
Pistons are available too, oh and that mental throttle body kit with the 6 separate throttle bodies
Hi Paul havent seen you for a while. As you and Jamie are here I want to pick your brains about running a low pressure supercharger or turbo. If I do this would it mean I could get away without having to upgrade the pistons and rods?
No the compession ratio is too high on the normally aspirated engine. you could get the pistons machined down a bit.
This a picture of the concept car it's based on i believe, tried to find a picture of Christians (CJNET'S) car but cannot find one.
Thats the kaminari bonnet I have, Tony has the carbon fibre version and there is one more somewhere in the uk
on the old forum there was a post about where thundercat had gone and someone posted up it had been stripped and neglected and the panels hand been dented
cant recall who posted it though
Base car for Christians was a C1 Manos unless he changed all the dashboard plastics from C2 to C1
Here's the 'build' thread for the concept:
http://www.ukcougarforum.com/vb/sho...ar-S-concept-here-I-come!...&highlight=cougar
it's fine upto about page 12
http://www.ukcougarforum.com/vb/sho...ar-S-concept-here-I-come!...&highlight=cougar
it's fine upto about page 12