Trying to hold on :(

Having just met Adam, (very nice bloke):thumbup: I plugged in the bluetooth thingy-ma-bob and it came up with "missfire on cylinder 2" so cleared the fault and restarted the car. Idle is a little lumpy and theres a definate shake whilst sat in the drivers seat. After a couple of revs its clear its not running on all 6, then check engine light comes back on again. Checked code and sure enough...same as above. So I swapped leads 1 and 2 at both ends to see if the leads were at fault or not. And after a reset it was still missfiring on 2. So then I whipped out #2 plug and it appeared ok....but bear in mind I was doing this by torch light. However they were NGK R's.

So my conclusion is iffy coilpack and change the plugs for genuine motorcraft. Has anyone got any different thoughts on this? Ive told Adam if he sourced the parts I will slap them in for him.

As an after thought I should have pulled one of my plugs and put it in to test :banghead:
 
localloon said:
Having just met Adam, (very nice bloke):thumbup: I plugged in the bluetooth thingy-ma-bob and it came up with "missfire on cylinder 2" so cleared the fault and restarted the car. Idle is a little lumpy and theres a definate shake whilst sat in the drivers seat. After a couple of revs its clear its not running on all 6, then check engine light comes back on again. Checked code and sure enough...same as above. So I swapped leads 1 and 2 at both ends to see if the leads were at fault or not. And after a reset it was still missfiring on 2. So then I whipped out #2 plug and it appeared ok....but bear in mind I was doing this by torch light. However they were NGK R's.

So my conclusion is iffy coilpack and change the plugs for genuine motorcraft. Has anyone got any different thoughts on this? Ive told Adam if he sourced the parts I will slap them in for him.

As an after thought I should have pulled one of my plugs and put it in to test :banghead:
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Thanks for restoring my faith in the cat :)
 
Im just waiting for Adam to give me the nod that the plugs have arrived, then I will swing by and fit them for him, then we shall see if its that or the coil pack......
 
Hopefully it'll be the plugs, if it was the pack it's likely to show a misfire in two-cylinders as this is a wasted-spark system.

That said, cookie don't always crumble that way!
 
Ive just scanned through this thread so scuse me if i missed owt but

£13 EACH FOR NGK R's?????????????????? were they feckin gold plated or what?????

Also I'll be surprised if plugs sort this, i reckon your looking at leads and maybe coil pack output on #2 HOWEVER check the earth leads to the engine and under the battery tray too

NGK's for £13 lmfao bloody Frauds are cheaper than that for Motorcraft OE sorry but it tickled me lol
 
TopCat1127 said:
Ive just scanned through this thread so scuse me if i missed owt but

£13 EACH FOR NGK R's?????????????????? were they feckin gold plated or what?????

Also I'll be surprised if plugs sort this, i reckon your looking at leads and maybe coil pack output on #2 HOWEVER check the earth leads to the engine and under the battery tray too

NGK's for £13 lmfao bloody Frauds are cheaper than that for Motorcraft OE sorry but it tickled me lol
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I swapped leads 2 and 3 and it still came up with misfire on cylinder 2 so wouldnt that rule out the leads? Its just a bugger that its a c2 and mines a c1 so I cant swap packs to check :(
 
TopCat1127 said:
£13 EACH FOR NGK R's?????????????????? were they feckin gold plated or what?????
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Close, I'm guessing these are the Platinum or Iridium plugs :geek:

Also I'll be surprised if plugs sort this, i reckon your looking at leads and maybe coil pack output on #2 HOWEVER check the earth leads to the engine and under the battery tray too
Click to expand...
The 'thing' with this vintage of Ford DIS system is that it's a double-polarity/wasted spark set-up. For the V6 engine there are three coils in the coil-pack, the system is set up so that:
-Each coil fires simultaneously two adjacent cylinders (by firing order), one on it's power-stoke and one on the exhaust stoke, this is where 'wasted spark' comes from, each cylinder sparks twice per cycle but one is pointless and 'wasted.'
-The upshot of this is that one plug becomes 'positive' and one plug becomes 'negative', hence the need for a specific precious metal plug as the plug can erode in both directions, as opposed to just the centre electrode wearing in most ignition systems, coupled with the fact that the plugs are firing twice as often as they need to... That's one of the host of reasons these systems are really fussy about their plugs.

It should be that the coil would show a misfire equally in two adjacent cylinders if everything else is equal if the coil-pack was at fault...... Don't always work like this though... But it's a good rule of thumb.

NGK's for £13 lmfao bloody Frauds are cheaper than that for Motorcraft OE sorry but it tickled me lol
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NGK would probably claim their plugs 'exceed OE quality' etc, but given the vast amounts of anecdotal evidence about the issues these cars have with the NGK plugs it's a complete no-brainer!

A good way you can check the earth of the engine block is to stick a jump-lead between the engine block and the negative side of the battery (anybody who's owned a 206 will know this one) and see if the misfire sorts itself?!
 
There's still feeders post coil to the individual terminals though which are potential points for failure. You wont get the wasted spark on that cylinder but in practise you'll never know because it's only the power stroke spark that impacts the running of the engine.
 
jamie_duff said:
There's still feeders post coil to the individual terminals though which are potential points for failure. You wont get the wasted spark on that cylinder but in practise you'll never know because it's only the power stroke spark that impacts the running of the engine.
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Really not being cocky mate, but I don't understand this? Do you mean the connections between the coil and the post on the pack?
 
Yes. Still a potential failure node. The practical experience for as long as I've been around here talking about Cougars has been that only 1 cylinder has dropped.

Assuming that the actual coil itself dies then you should drop 2 as you say - but I've never heard of that happen on one of these in 10 years.
 
jamie_duff said:
Yes. Still a potential failure node. The practical experience for as long as I've been around here talking about Cougars has been that only 1 cylinder has dropped.

Assuming that the actual coil itself dies then you should drop 2 as you say - but I've never heard of that happen on one of these in 10 years.
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Oh I agree it's a failure point, like I said it's just a "rule of thumb" - I've seen it fairly often across wasted spark systems BUT again this isn't V6 Cougar specific. I can categorically say I've seen it many times on the Zetec-E though.

I haven't got an engine in front of me, but could it be a common thread that the coil-posts closest to the engine seem to fail first or it is just indiscriminate? Just thinking if it's heat related?
 
I've never really thought about it to be honest. My experience of ignition systems in general on cars and planes is that they do pretty much what they bloody well want and often faults refuse to reveal themselves on a test bench too. It can be very hard to replicate or reproduce electrical faults.
 
jamie_duff said:
I've never really thought about it to be honest. My experience of ignition systems in general on cars and planes is that they do pretty much what they bloody well want and often faults refuse to reveal themselves on a test bench too. It can be very hard to replicate or reproduce electrical faults.
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That's certainly true!

Airframe mechanic by any chance, or pilot?
 
Nah - not for an occupation. Plenty exposure though. It was a 3 generation family vocation until I went off and did my own thing. Still tinker with homebuilts now and then - built the odd engine etc. It's not an industry I could work in though!
 
benham said:
Close, I'm guessing these are the Platinum or Iridium plugs :geek:


The 'thing' with this vintage of Ford DIS system is that it's a double-polarity/wasted spark set-up. For the V6 engine there are three coils in the coil-pack, the system is set up so that:
-Each coil fires simultaneously two adjacent cylinders (by firing order), one on it's power-stoke and one on the exhaust stoke, this is where 'wasted spark' comes from, each cylinder sparks twice per cycle but one is pointless and 'wasted.'
-The upshot of this is that one plug becomes 'positive' and one plug becomes 'negative', hence the need for a specific precious metal plug as the plug can erode in both directions, as opposed to just the centre electrode wearing in most ignition systems, coupled with the fact that the plugs are firing twice as often as they need to... That's one of the host of reasons these systems are really fussy about their plugs.

It should be that the coil would show a misfire equally in two adjacent cylinders if everything else is equal if the coil-pack was at fault...... Don't always work like this though... But it's a good rule of thumb.


NGK would probably claim their plugs 'exceed OE quality' etc, but given the vast amounts of anecdotal evidence about the issues these cars have with the NGK plugs it's a complete no-brainer!

A good way you can check the earth of the engine block is to stick a jump-lead between the engine block and the negative side of the battery (anybody who's owned a 206 will know this one) and see if the misfire sorts itself?!
Click to expand...

Funnily enough i already know this but then again i know probly as much about you......
 
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